Curse

Mordakai · Apr 11, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleta

I love EQII and the ability to choose the race or the good or evil side.

I sincerely hope they do not do that with GW2. Horrible, horrible idea. We don't need to be told "Charr bad, Sylvari good." Let us choose. (And actually letting our characters do evil things would be cool too. With consequences of course....)

EDIT: I might have misread you, and your thoughts are closer to mine. I apologize if that's the case).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Placebo

... i just wish they more slowly introduce races and dont make them to powerful side abilities in GWEN i dont want 1 super uber race and tons of other useless ones just for that reason

Seriously. Why would they do that? We're not even sure if races will be all that different, besides unique race skills that can be balanced post-release if necessary.

Cyon Vaan · Apr 11, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Well, I guess it was as non-biased as I could get it. However, there will always be biasm in perspectives, so thanks for accurately labeling your arguments as biased.

Yaga Philipe · Apr 11, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Think about it this way.

What you are saying is that high level caps, races, and other things make it "just like every other MMO".

Do you say that about cars? They all look alike pretty much. Most have leather or a leather-like interiors, with the same basic seats. They also have very alike engines. The transmissions are mostly alike (with the exception to manual and automatic) The trunks, well lets just say I couldn't tell a damn Mercedes-Benz trunk from a Hyundai's. What about color? Well, every brand offers about the same colors as everyone else.

Do you say "that'll make that car the same as every other car" everytime a car company announces a new model?

Don't make me make me compare others things to that quote, you won't like it.

mazik · Apr 11, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyon Vaan

Well, I guess it was as non-biased as I could get it. However, there will always be biasm in perspectives, so thanks for accurately labeling your arguments as biased.

I agree that everything will have a certain biased slant, because it's human nature. But as someone previously stated, just because you start a sentence with 'this opinion is unbiased' then proceed to give an incredibly biased opinion, it doesn't make it less biased. It's like saying 'no offence, but you're really ugly'. Just because you say no offense, doesn't mean the person will be any less offended:\.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorglubb

Best solution: just like some other RPG have PvE, PvP or RPG oriented servers, GW could have some servers were humans are the only race allowed. Problem solved.

I see this as a very, very bad solution. First of all, it's like virtual race segregation....which is just weird:\. And second of all, I don't like the idea that just because my friend plays a human and I play a norn, that we can't help each other or play because we are of different races. Not to mention this would kind of defeat the whole point of having diversity because you would still only see one race the whole time you were playing:\.

TheLichMonky · Apr 11, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirocco Starluck

I'm jazzed about the new races. I've been wanting new races since day 1 of playing GW Prophecies. The one thing I was relieved to see was that the Sylvari do NOT look like elves. Dryads possibly, but if it had pointy ears I would've cried.

I don't understand how new races is akin to being lame. Is the only reasoning behind that "because then it'll be like every other MMORPG online"? Because there's only so much "originality" you can have in a game. Everything borrows from everything else.

without races makes GW itself unique, its a all human character based game.. unlike all other mmos, the reason so many people including myself hate it is because of the fact that their trying to be a lot like WOW. The new races and level cap will obviously make the pvp unbalanced and maybe even make the experienced non-meta stay away forever </3 =(

Alex the Great · Apr 11, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaga Philipe

Think about it this way.

What you are saying is that high level caps, races, and other things make it "just like every other MMO".

Do you say that about cars? They all look alike pretty much. Most have leather or a leather-like interiors, with the same basic seats. They also have very alike engines. The transmissions are mostly alike (with the exception to manual and automatic) The trunks, well lets just say I couldn't tell a damn Mercedes-Benz trunk from a Hyundai's. What about color? Well, every brand offers about the same colors as everyone else.

Do you say "that'll make that car the same as every other car" everytime a car company announces a new model?

Don't make me make me compare others things to that quote, you won't like it.

smartest thing i have read on this forum today

nice use of metaphors

grottoftl · Apr 11, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

having only a human race to play was never the reason that made guild wars unique

just look at other MMOs where they have only human races to play does that cause them to be unique?

SwordOfAVirgin · Apr 11, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Couple things that I would like to address. People have said that there is no point in whining, and that a lot of this is based on guesswork. I would beg to differ on both accounts.

First of all, if there is a time to whine, it's now. Before the game is goes gold and the damage is done. At that point no matter how hard you whine things wont change. Besides, I'm not whining I'm complaining.

Secondly although I do admit that I am making some guesses, they are educated guesses based on logic and past experience. Someone in this thread admitted that they could be a "Possible scenario" but I would argue that they are more along the lines of a "Quite likely scenario"

So anyway here are my issues.

Races with stat bonuses? This is something we see in pretty much every other MMORPG and RPG, so it's quite likely that ANET is considering it if they haven't just taken it for granted and put in already. This is something I really don't want to see becuase, I don't want to HAVE to play a Charr to make a competitive Warrior. Even amongst the people who disagree with me and want races, I don't recall anyone saying they like stat bonuses yet. If you agree/disagree lets talk about it now, and let them know how we feel before the game code is written and can't be changed.

Second. Races mean fewer options for Humans. The way I see it the Art team has X amount of time to work on armor and character models. You put in 6 races and it's pretty logical to assume 1/6 the time can be spent on humans. It's pretty realistic to assume they aren't going to spend 6 times as long making armors and character models. It's not like they have unlimited funds or no deadlines.This means that Humans will be much less diverse so that we can have a bunch of wierd/ugly races (Asura, Charr, Tengu? Centaur?). Now considering that Humans will probably be the most played race or close to it, just think how many more clones will be running around when you have 1/6 the armor, hair and face options.

Summary: I like to play Humans and I like the diverse number of appearance options I have in GW1. I feel like I'm going to lose a lot of that in GW2 when they add in 6 or more other races. Am I assuming the worst? It's possible. But I would rather have a discussion about it now when ANET can see how people feel about the issue and make a change. So if you like the diversity you have in Human character appearances in GW1 and want to see the same in GW2 speak now before it's too late. Or the next thing you know you will have to make an Asura if you want to look different.

Darkest Dawn · Apr 11, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verteiron

I think the best solution would be no inherent bonuses for any race at all; the differences should be purely aesthetic.

Agreed. I am for new races to add diversity. I do think it should be purely aesthetics so it keeps the balance.

mazik · Apr 11, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLichMonky

without races makes GW itself unique, its a all human character based game.. unlike all other mmos, the reason so many people including myself hate it is because of the fact that their trying to be a lot like WOW. The new races and level cap will obviously make the pvp unbalanced and maybe even make the experienced non-meta stay away forever </3 =(

Yes...Guild Wars is the only MMO to have human only characters. And because they have a high level cap and races, that makes it EXACTLY like WoW and every other MMO ever made. A-Net's sole intention with this game is to make it unbalanced so we will hate it because, let's face it, games that people hate sell a lot of copies, don't they? Ah, now I see the logic....

[/sarcasm]

Ok, so considering none of us have played the game or even seen in game anything, because they probably haven't gotten in game anything yet, how do you know PvP will be unbalanced? How do you know anything will be unbalanced? If one single neigh-sayer in this topic brings to my attention a solid, fact-based argument, I will give them a big old cookie. Everything anyone says about hating races and why they don't want them is purely speculation and their thoughts that 'omgzor...the characters will look...DIFFERENT!!!11!oneone! That makes it exactly like WoW!'. They are not trying to be like WoW, they are trying to be like Guild Wars 2, it's not a difficult concept.

lord_shar · Apr 11, 2007, 11:59 PM // 23:59

New races = new eye candy. I never did get into WoW because, frankly, WoW's Who-Framed-Roger-Rabbit cartoon graphics never appealed to me. I was a long time EQ player, and I considered its now-primitive graphics more eye-catching than WoW's.

GW's character graphics are still among the best of any MMORPG I've seen. I'm hoping that they extend their eye-candy-quality to the new races as well. This is what will separate GW2 from the current MMORPG's out there - nice graphics quality combined with excellent game play. WoW only has the latter, not the former.

To the xenophobes who don't want new races: play a human in GW2, or stick with GW1, or quit. The choice is ultimately yours alone. To the xenophiles who want the new races: looking forward to seeing you all in GW2

Bowman Artemis · Apr 12, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

I spk 4 evry1 wen i say taht NO1 WANTZ RACEZ @ ALL. Cuz i tihk taht racez suxxor nd so dus evry1.

That's the kind of infallible logic that appears when a person (or people) start talking for an entire community (or "the majority" in said community). Let the majorty talk for itsself, from what I've seen, a lot of people want races in GW2.

ArenaNet have done fairly well with Guild Wars. It's true that there have been some changes that could have been thought out a bit better, but overall, the game is fairly well balanced.

Looking at GW2, we have the following information:

The names and vague backstories of a few playable races.
A few pieces of concept art and other pictures.
A few comments from ArenaNet employees.

From this, we're somehow "certain" that GW2 is going to be a clone of all the other MMOs out there. We "know" that there will be racial bonuses, it's "definitely" going to have unique skills and such and there will "definitely" be unbalanced gameplay.

It's also a "fact" that "the majority" don't want races.

I ask you all, where have we found this information? With GW1, has ArenaNet been uncreative? As far as GW2 goes, have we been told that there will be attribute bonuses? Have we been shown the skills that the new races will have? Have we been shown anything to back up the claims that the races will be unbalanced? No, we have not. All we have to go on now are small bits of information, rumors and imagination. I say we hold off judging the race system until we know more about how ArenaNet will approach it. No doubt they will apply their own creativity to it and no doubt it will be as different to the stereotypical race system as GW1 was to WoW.

Silly Warrior · Apr 12, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Well we don't yet know what bonus' for the races Anet is intending on doing. Perhaps there will be none (which would be silly) or perhaps the extra stuff that comes with the classes will be explained in GW:EN.

So, as far as GW2 needing races, people have been asking for them for forever, and practically every other MMO has multiple races.

Lets just see what Anet intends to do with races in GW:EN and then worry about GW2, its a long way off.

lord_shar · Apr 12, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLichMonky

without races makes GW itself unique, its a all human character based game.. unlike all other mmos, the reason so many people including myself hate it is because of the fact that their trying to be a lot like WOW. The new races and level cap will obviously make the pvp unbalanced and maybe even make the experienced non-meta stay away forever </3 =(

Diablo 1 and 2 have been around for ages, still alive and running. Yes, all playable classes are human-only (temporary shapechange forms don't count). No, Diablo isn't a true MMORPG, but neither is GW.

Please do a little research before contributing more FUD.

For those fixated on an all-human-only character selection, GW1 will still be here for you while the rest of us move onto GW2.

Siva arwen · Apr 12, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Man dont be so stupid. Doing thing that similar to the other doesn't mean it is clone.
If you say GW2 is making it another MMO clone by having new race and higher lvlcap, do you want to say you are a clone too when you are doing thing similar to the other does?

mazik · Apr 12, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

I spk 4 evry1 wen i say taht NO1 WANTZ RACEZ @ ALL. Cuz i tihk taht racez suxxor nd so dus evry1.

That's the kind of infallible logic that appears when a person (or people) start talking for an entire community (or "the majority" in said community). Let the majorty talk for itsself, from what I've seen, a lot of people want races in GW2.

ArenaNet have done fairly well with Guild Wars. It's true that there have been some changes that could have been thought out a bit better, but overall, the game is fairly well balanced.

Looking at GW2, we have the following information:

The names and vague backstories of a few playable races.
A few pieces of concept art and other pictures.
A few comments from ArenaNet employees.

From this, we're somehow "certain" that GW2 is going to be a clone of all the other MMOs out there. We "know" that there will be racial bonuses, it's "definitely" going to have unique skills and such and there will "definitely" be unbalanced gameplay.

It's also a "fact" that "the majority" don't want races.

I ask you all, where have we found this information? With GW1, has ArenaNet been uncreative? As far as GW2 goes, have we been told that there will be attribute bonuses? Have we been shown the skills that the new races will have? Have we been shown anything to back up the claims that the races will be unbalanced? No, we have not. All we have to go on now are small bits of information, rumors and imagination. I say we hold off judging the race system until we know more about how ArenaNet will approach it. No doubt they will apply their own creativity to it and no doubt it will be as different to the stereotypical race system as GW1 was to WoW.

Quoted for truth.

HawkofStorms · Apr 12, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Become people often demand it. While all posts in Saredalic that are posted suggesting new races were always shot down with "this isn't WoW" or "use search noob" before being locked, there were still a lot of posts like that, clearly showing that there was at least some interest in it.

floppinghog · Apr 12, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

This topic is meaningless in its entirely, why might you ask?

Well, its all based on the assumption that by GW2 having different races other than humans as playable characters is going to be back to back similar in the way of other MMO's systems of what races add to a character. Much like race specific attributes, giving an example: (in wow) Night Elves have a free afk shadow skill to remain hidden for as long as the character doesn't move; given that does the human race have that same ability? the answer is no.

We already know that Anet is Anet, Not other companies.

heck while we're at it, why don't we spread the word of gw2 being p2p like other games! yeah gw2 gonna be p2p guys sorry, o well! right?

wrong. GW2 is already hugely different, IT WON'T BE ANOTHER WALLET PARASITE = no p2p.

ScorpiusX · Apr 12, 2007, 04:19 AM // 04:19

My ranger managed to bump into her identical twin and I do mean identical the only difference appearance wise was our guild capes hers was a different colour and that was it everything else was the same.

As to different races, if I don't like the look of 'em I won't play 'em wether or not a given race is better than any other at the profession I want to play. This is why my warrior character is female instead of male I don't want to play a character that looks like a slab of beef.

ScorpiusX

gamecube187 · Apr 12, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Ok, first off, now that you mention it like that, what is the difference between dwarves and short humans with beards or elves and tall, skinny humans? I don't think I'm gonna look at elves or dwarves the same way ever again....

Second, I know a lot of people that would rather play a game as a non-human. [/sarcasim] I mean, who wants to play a boring human when you can just be one in everyday life? [/not sarcasim]

Also, although I am very, very, very, very, very, very (insert infinite more "very"s here) happy to see that GW2 has races, I agreee with you that the stat bonuses are anoying. Stat bonuses of any kind would just ruin races and make me wish that it was only humans that were playable. I hate it when, in a game, I want to make a mage, but the race I want to create my mage as doesn't have good mage-like stats, so I have to make my mage a different race, and if I want to make a warrior........I'll just stop there.

Also, we won't have as many different human character models, but unlike what you seem to think, people are going to play more than just the human race in GW2 (well, I know I'm probably going to make one human at the most in GW2, and other people seem to want to make more than just humans), which means that, while humans might not be as diverse from each other, they will still be more diverse overall, thanks to the new races.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

People just don't want GW to be like every other MMO game out there. GW1 is unique. GW2 is doing nothing but making it another MMO clone.

Hmmmm, yes, and more variety is definitely going to make it like every other game that has ever existed so far....

Also, tell me one game, just one, that lets you be a Charr or a Asura. Think of any? Any at all? And yet you say that it's copying, when no other game even has Charr or Asura (besides GW1 that is

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by xBakox

I actually agree with one of your points. Shocked? I am. This is Anet we're talking about, and though I hate inherit racial skills that make one race better than another at this or that profession, I'm sure they will think of something. Hopefully it will just be something along the lines of 10 unique skills for races or something, not inherit traits (such as Norns have 20% armor penetration).

If that is all the diferent races do, and the skills don't benifit any single class more than it benifits any other class, then I'm fine with races being different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verteiron

I think the best solution would be no inherent bonuses for any race at all; the differences should be purely aesthetic.

I really hope that is all the races do. Like I've said, anything more than being just aesthetic, and I fear races might possibly ruin GW2 for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Right. And Ranger class is good at lowering the cost of skills, Assassin is good at crits, Ele is good with any high-cost magic. Oh, you say those are classes and not races? I beg to differ - can you change your primary? No. That pretty much means you are stuck with what you choose, just like a race. It obviously gives you specific benefits, just like a race. Hell, they even have unique models, just like a race. Still think it will be sooo much different?

Well, accually, yes. If they give races special abilities, then it will be like this

*GW2 Without Racial Abilities
Player wants to be a caster with elemental powers. They also want to be a Charr. They make a Charr Ele. Now they have a lot of energy, and spells that cost so much energy that it's best if the ele uses those spells instead of a (insert any other class here) using those spells. The player is happy.

*GW2 With Racial Abilities
Player wants to be a caster with elemental powers, again. They also want to be a charr, again. The charr have +10% attack speed and +10% physical damage, but cast spells 10% slower and have -10% max energy. They make a Charr Ele. Now it is the same as above, except ele's have quite a few slow casting spells and now cast even slower because of their race. They also have less energy for those high energy spells. They find out that (insert random non-charr race here) can cast spells 10% faster and has +10% max energy and -10% attack speed and -10% physical damage, but that is the race that the player dislikes the most. Now the player has to either make a race that they don't like, not play ele, or just continue playing their Charr Ele and be at a huge disadvantage. No matter what, player is unhappy, or at least not nearly as happy as they could have been without Racial Abilities.

That sure seemsd like a pretty big difference to me....